New York Times re heat pump myths - Feb 24, 2023

@Iona Lutey Thanks. That is great that heat pumps  can heat in very cold temperatures, and that they more efficiently use energy than gas furnaces, but the  big question I am hearing from several folks is - “Will an affordable heat pump cost more to heat my house than a gas furnace, especially during very cold nights?"  Basically, if their old gas furnace stops working, does it make sense to their budget to afford a new heat pump even after the initial cost?

Example:  Given an 8 hour period of outside temperature at 8°F, and same weatherization conditions, how would the price of heating with a new gas furnace compare to a heat pump? 

When I get these questions, what are good sources to share with people?  Daily heating and cooling budgets impact a much greater % of some people's income and I think it is the biggest question facing them when we approach them with the idea of turning off the gas for heating. 
 

Hi @Bob James.  It's not a simple question to answer because it depends on a lot of factors.  For example, all heating systems are expensive, so how are we defining ‘affordable’?  What sort of heating system would the heat pump be replacing? How much does the fuel for that heating system cost, and how much are local electric rates?

I'd point to this Carbon Switch article and this heat pump blog to help answer the question though.

Thanks, @Dana Nuccitelli, for those great articles! 

When our HVAC servicers tell us that "natural" gas is “clean and cheaper” I realize the HVAC providers  are not realizing yet the need to change. There is a lot of educating and adjustments needed. I hope one day HVAC servicers are ready to promote the best non-fossil sources for their customers.

A national price on carbon with a dividend may help that transition.  However even when most of the fossil sources are stopped, priced out of the market, the clean sources need to be affordable to all.  

I wish the IRA provided a way to reap benefits now (credits or rebates) for participating in solar projects without personally investing in solar panels. I know some funds are intended for paticipation in solar community programs, but it would be great if we could benefit via your existing utility's projects. For exanple,  Ga. Power provides a way to pay $25 for KWhr block of a solar project but they tell you to expect to pay more for using the solar source, that the  credits appearing on your monthly electric bill, even in sunny times, will not exceed your $25/kwhr block cost .  If we could take a tax credit for participating in our utility's solar/renewable projects like Ga. Power's offer,  perhaps cooling/heating cost reduction would benefit more participants who do not have access or levearage-able financing affordable for putting a solar panel on their own roof and it would escalate utility company's transition to renewable sources. 

Thanks again, 

Bob

@Iona Lutey Maine winters can be forbiddingly cold, however today's heat pumps work in ME.  We installed two back in 2021 and are pleased with results re. comfort and cost.
 

Thanks, @William Fergusson for sharing this. My friend who needs to replace his gas furnace in Ga would like to ask you some questions. Do you mind answering these either on the thread here or priviately to me at BobJames07@gmail.com.  Thanks! 

How do their heating costs with the heat pumps compare to the system
   they replaced?  Higher? Lower? About the same?
 * Why 2? Is it just the layout of the house?
 * What's the SEER rating on the unit?
 * Is the heat pump the sole source of heating or is there an auxiliary
   system (e.g. gas furnace)?
 * If there's an auxiliary system, at what temp does it take over for
   the heat pump (roughly)?
 * Did they have to upgrade insulation, windows etc. to seal the
   envelope? How critical was that to success? [I'd guess homes in ME
   are already pretty well sealed to begin with.]
 

Thanks!

Bob
 

@Bob James

Thanks, @William Fergusson for sharing this. My friend who needs to replace his gas furnace in Ga would like to ask you some questions. Do you mind answering these either on the thread here or priviately to me at BobJames07@gmail.com.  Thanks! 

How do their heating costs with the heat pumps compare to the system
   they replaced?  Higher? Lower? About the same?  Before installing heat pumps, we heated with oil boiler.  Heat Pumps are more cost effective and provide greater comfort.  Here is Efficiency Maine weblink  with videos, cost comparisons, etc.  www.efficiencymaine.com

 * Why 2? Is it just the layout of the house?  Ductless heat pumps heat zones unlike ducted oil or gas furnaces.  
 * What's the SEER rating on the unit?  Will get back to you on this.
 * Is the heat pump the sole source of heating or is there an auxiliary
   system (e.g. gas furnace)?  We use oil burner furnace when temperature drops to zero.  
 * If there's an auxiliary system, at what temp does it take over for
   the heat pump (roughly)?
 * Did they have to upgrade insulation, windows etc. to seal the
   envelope? How critical was that to success? [I'd guess homes in ME
   are already pretty well sealed to begin with.  No.  Older homes may require sealing and insulation upgrades, however.
 
 

Hi All,

This is a terrific dialog. I suggest that we move this over to the Forum of the Electrification Action Team where the 225 team members can all benefit from the technology discussion.  If there are policy and congress aspects for further discussion, i recommend that we continue those here in the CCL Policy Agenda forums. 
 

@T Todd Elvins Thanks.  

Bill (@William Fergusson) and I are continuing this discussion on the Electrificaion and Action Team forum here - Important considerations when replacing a gas furnace with a heat pump (especially for middle and low-income households).   Hopefully more will benefit from its post there. 
 

@Dana Nuccitelli So we are looking at getting a heat pump drier and dishwasher. We found online. Any thoughts?
 

Hi @Sandy Spears.  Unfortunately there aren't any IRA incentives for dishwashers, and there will only be rebates for heat pump clothes dryers (in the future, once the rebate programs are set up) if you currently have a fossil fueled clothes dryer.

@Dana Nuccitelli do they work? I don't hear about anyone who owns one
 

Me either @Sandy Spears, but a heat pump is an established and very efficient technology, so they should work great 🤓